-- Madeleine Page, on the deep truths of alt.folklore.urban. Post author: Post published: June 10, 2022 Post category: printable afl fixture 2022 Post comments: columbus day chess tournament columbus day chess tournament A nun on a bike ride in owicz . The repeated we-know-nothing stance by the garda is especially strange given that the original article in the Irish Mail on Sunday reported that the family of one of the children who died at the home had already reported it to the garda. 'But the place was behind 8ft walls and nobody was allowed in. Don "Not the best of books but I have it" Whittington, -- This is what goes on while we wait for a legend todiscuss or a clueless newby to savage.---Casady's take on things. The Nun features a memorable scene in which several main characters amble through a haunted crypt inside the Abbey. Dichotomy is still a major concern for the Catholic Church now. Are 12,000 miles from Belfast. View all posts by ivarfjeld. "This is a historical investigation going back to the 1950s. It seems to be just one of those ugly things that people say. AFRICANGLOBE - The bodies of 796 children, between the ages of two days and nine years old, have been found in a disused sewage tank in Tuam, County Galway. We are no longer accepting comments on this article. (LogOut/ With so many babies perishing, the nuns had used the septic tank as a convenient depository, turning it into a mass grave. ', Catherine went to the records office in Galway. Won't someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Professor Gideon Avni (left) visited Goa in 2017. As for the convent, once upon a time sometimes women sought shelter atconvents when they were "in trouble." Comments? He wants not only the Catholic church but also the Irish government to apologise for the way he and others in the home were treated. I seem to remember reading that a lot of this stuff has its roots in anti-Catholic propaganda in much of the English speaking parts of the world in the 1700s and 1800s. "That 800 number will be replicated, and [be] higher in other homes," she said on RTE. We never had any young, good looking>priests. I love cleaning out junk from cabinets and closets Ill be back with more. In 2011, she began to source death certificates for every child who had died at the home, paying four euros (Dh15) to the country registry office for each certificate copy. The book is long gone. And its clear why nuns have no power. I fully agree with Lars-Toralf Storstrand. She told me I would be charged for each record. The Bon Secours order, which is still operational and now runs hospitals issued a statement following the commissions revelations. I should know..I left the RCC this year. The bit aboutthe area being reserved for the offspring of nuns could obviously becreative embroidery. If this did happen and there's no evidence either way as of yet then it could explain what happened to some of the 796 children. That is an orban legend (to my understanding of the term).It is told about any number of Nunneries. P J Haverty, who grew up in the home and was then placed in foster care at the age of six, called the facility a prison. ", "Ireland's first mother and baby home, at Bessborough, in Cork, had an even worse infant mortality rate of around 82 percent: In the year ending March 31, 1944, 124 children were born or admitted there, and 102 died.". Meanwhile, the fundraising efforts are continuing by the committee of local historians. Yep. Today is about remembering and respecting the dignity of the children who lived their short lives in this home, Katherine Zappone, Irelands minister for children and youth affairs, said in a statement on Friday. Pressure is growing for a proper investigation. It was one of the "mother and baby" homes across Ireland, similar to the Sean Ross Abbey, in Tipperary, where Philomena Lee gave her child up for adoption in a story that was this year made into the eponymous Oscar-nominated film "Philomena.". Comments?>>>What it reeks of is a tale-teller who has a major bone to pick with the>Catholic Church. Is this happening in convents today? I doubt they put the babies or miscarried fetuses into theregular trash, but years ago who knows. Might make a good movie. Local author JP Rodgers, who lived at the home until he was fostered at the age of 6, at the grotto. The building itself was bulldozed and a housing estate now stands in its place. They just lay there in it.'. The Dolan case may force the government to take action, but it is unlikely Tuam is an isolated case. Smythe>> >> A key connotation of "Get thee to a nunnery! I suppose it's quite possible that there were areas incemeteries reserved for illegitimate children, suicides, etc, and thishas mutated over the years. The tank has now been surrounded by a housing estate, but an officer from Ireland's Gardai police force said remains had recently been found after a police survey at the site. Over 400 children's bodies have been discovered on the grounds of a Catholic Church run by nuns in Lanarkshire, southern Scotland. Run by the Bon Secours order of nuns, the Tuam home opened in 1925 and closed in 1961. So, if the nuns at a convent took in a woman whose baby died, they'd probably bury it on the convent grounds. Their crime had to be hidden, their babies delivered in secret behind high walls, and their children taken away. Especially if the case dates from the 1940s orbefore. examples of linguistic frames. The conditions in these places could be "Dickensian," say advocates and historians: in the early decades of mother-and-baby homes, nuns might oversee a birth without the help of a midwife or . Now, I have two unborn siblings (miscarriages) that are waiting for me, and my mother and brother in heaven. The coalition of mother and baby home survivors called the shocking discovery of the mass grave the tip of the iceberg.. The Home was run by the Bon Secours Sisters, a religious order of Catholic nuns, that also operated the Grove Hospital in the town. A committee of local historians began a campaign to raise money for a proper memorial at the site, which led one of them, Catherine Corless to do more research on who exactly was buried there. It is a huge step forward. Grim reports that nearly 800 dead babies were discovered in the septic tank of a home run by nuns has set off a round of soul-searching in Ireland and sparked calls for accountability . The institution's records carry the scribbled word 'died', but no further information. It was just the thing for a bored 12-year-old on a family vacation. In it, they said that they were "shocked and deeply saddened" about the reports, and said that they would co-operate with plans for a memorial. The babies were then left in the orphanage to be raised by the nuns. At least we know this now, she said. Other revelations followed: The R. Catholic was totally corrupt: why was the pope living in a palace and covered in gems and satins and silks, and wearing a crown, and people worshipping him and kissing his hands and his rings? Grim reports that nearly 800 dead babies were discovered in the septic tank of a home run by nuns has set off a round of soul-searching in Ireland and sparked calls for accountability from government and Catholic Church officials. But as the previous poster said, no nuns or priests as parents in thisone. I had written about one such case in my book Philomena, later made into a film starring Judi Dench. One clue into the reason for their deaths lies in the location of the bodies. Comments? Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I just heard a really creepy story about a small town in the US, This story has been making the rounds since my mother was a child (and she, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:18:36 +0000 (UTC), Robert Warinner, On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:16:05 +1100, Viv <, On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:57:18 GMT, R H Draney <, Phil Gustafson 13 Mar 2001 19:33:52 -0500. The slabs concealed the entrance to a Victorian septic tank built for the workhouse. It is a statement that puts me in mind of the final scene of the film Philomena when Steve Coogan, playing a semi-fictional version of me and furious at being fobbed off by the Church, storms into a convent and threatens to throw the old nun who ran the mother and baby home 'out of that f***ing wheelchair!' "People don't seem shocked, I don't understand," she said. To me this reeks of urban legendand the makings of a great (ifcontroversial) horror movie. We have almost 800 here". (Patrick Callaghan/CBC) Decades have passed but Rose Prosper. Do you know when it stopped? Their babies were neglected, crowded into communal nurseries where infection and disease ran unchecked. Indeed memeringkat iklan lowongan berdasarkan. He could still be alive or he's in the grave.'. * isNo junk email please. A small Irish community has been rocked by allegations that the bodies of dead children may have been interred in a disused septic tank behind a former home for unmarried mothers. I love the discusions that describe one religion better than another. No. It struck me as a fairly typical anti-Catholic story. found behind both the local Catholic hospital and>>the local convent in the trash from the 1940s on, over several>>decades. > The stories also had it that the infants were the result of> sex between the nuns and local priests. I talked to local residents and met John, now in his 80s and one of the first to move into the estate in October 1972, who told me how children made a grim discovery on the grassy area. A swift glance at the URL quoted would have revealed that thepropaganda mentioned was mostly of US/Canadian 19th century origin andhas spread as far as the bigots have. Catherine managed to get a map of The Home back from when it was a workhouse in the late 19th and early 20th century. What is the home at the centre of the controversy? Unmarried women in the area who became pregnant were sent there to give birth away from their families, as at the time, having a so-called 'illegitimate' child was regarded as shameful. These false brethren has made the Reformation null and void. The>stories were rampant when I was in Catholic school. Also, you used to have to fast from midnight until Mass the next day before communion. Special Report By Martin Sixsmith Similar things could be said of bl**d lib*l. While I'm pretty certain Idon't want to see the discussion of that on AFU (although I'm equallycertain the regulars would behave), why isn't it a (an?) Thumbs up! Some of them were put up for adoption - which, some contend, was done without the consent of the parents -while some remained in the care of the nuns. 'There was nothing you could do. It's an old, old ghost story. So 796 children definitely died at The Home we know that because there are State records. Not sure why this UL>: doesn't belong here, Phil.>>It's not that your tale couldn't fit more or less comfortably under>within the definition of 'urban legend,' it's that the point of legend>- 'Catholics are depraved perverts' - is possible loon bait and likely>to step on someone's religious sensibilities at some point. The means of murder that Poe's narrator described is known as immurement, a terribly cruel form of punishment in which the victim is essentially buried alive and left to suffocate or writhe in agony until eventual starvation and dehydration lead to death. The significant quantities of remains were found in 17 out of 20 underground chambers that were examined. Simply put, the story spans a long period of time but has only gotten media attention in recent weeks. strava photo with stats; mygovid unable to verify identity. Ireland's Roman Catholic Church told the order of nuns who ran the former home that it must co-operate with any inquiry into the discovery, according to the Reuters news agency. A week later [my contact there] got back to me and said 'do you really want all of these deaths?' In my book that spells hypocrisy. The children ranged from newborns up to the age of nine years old and the records show they died from a variety of illnesses. Ivarfjeld have you considered your comment? And, interestingly, makes the original statement about special areasin graveyards at least a 'P'. The order of nuns which dumped the bodies of up to 800 babies and children in a septic tank must be disbanded and its assets seized, a TD insisted yesterday. Local author JP Rodgers, who lived at the home until he was fostered at the age of 6, at the grotto. Yes, we do. "Those buried outside most likely represent the laity with a general desire to be buried as close to the religious heart of the church as possible." Fearing the murder of her child, she fled the convent. **CoyoteBlue32**Your hunka-hunka burnin' monkey-lovin! Between 1925 and 1961, 796 infants died. In a recent interview, Frannie said that his parents told him that a local priest had said a mass at the site and the grave was then covered over again. However, Catherine Corless says the evidence points to only one answer. (LogOut/ Here, we look at how the story has unfolded, and all of the many, many questions that still remain. He said: "The nuns have a huge plot up in St Joseph's Cemetery and these three old ladies were buried up there between the path and the wall. Historian Michael Dwyer said no record of the trials can be found in Government files from the time, but that the details instead were published in medical journals. The entrance to the site of a mass grave of hundreds of children who died in the former Bons Secours home for unmarried mothers is seen in Tuam, County Galway, on Wednesday. Drama may also be found if the wall contains gruesome information relating to a brutal murder or entombs the body of a bricked up nun. Charlie Flanagan, minister for children and youth affairs, said Wednesday night that there was a "cross-departmental initiative underway" to determine how to react to allegations. They stressed that the records were all handed over to the local authority now within the HSE when The Home closed in 1961. I had nightmares over it.'. Until 1961 this had been the site of a Catholic religious community run by the Sisters of Bon Secours. "I am horrified and saddened to hear of the large number of deceased children involved and this points to a time of great suffering and pain for the little ones and their mothers," he said. This rate is significantly higher than Ireland's infant mortality rates at the time. Their mothers don't know where they're buried. May or may not be an urban legend, but it is too close to the BoRfor discussion of whether there is any truth behind it. The paper ran an interview with Catherine Corless in which she detailed her work and research methods. The Irish Minister for Children, Charlie Flanagan, has called the revelations about Tuam and other mother and baby homes 'deeply disturbing' and 'a shocking reminder of a darker past'. A few suburbs away, at the Preston Cemetery, 350 babies are buried together in a space of about 3 metres by 3 metres. Girls usually moved when they were 6, though residents of St. Joseph's Orphanage in Burlington, Vermont, did not always have a clear sense of their age birthdays, like siblings and even names, being one of the many human attributes that were stripped from them when . They kicked it around, but when we looked at it we saw it was a child's skull. IN THE SPACE of two weeks, the story about a mass grave at a former mother and baby home in Galway has grown from something that was just talked about locally in Tuam to a worldwide news story. "We do not know what were dealing with here yet, it could go back much further," the officer told NBC News on condition of anonymity. Were some children at Mother and Baby Homes used for medical research? The Church said the girls were 'fallen women' and degenerates. Nearly 800 children died at the Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in the town of Tuam, in western Ireland, according to death certificates discovered by a local historian, Catherine Corless. She said that the cemetery attachedto the church (attached to the convent attached to the orphanage) hada walled off area for the illegitimate offspring of Nuns (who couldnot be buried in consecrated ground). There are mass graves all over Ireland. The first signs of the mass grave were spotted in 1975 when two young boys, playing in a field on the old site of the home found skeletons inside a hollow covered by a concrete slab. A Galway County Council archivist told her that none of the names appeared in any nearby cemetery. Thats all you need to ask yourself. Simon.-- http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | There's a *reason* why talk.politics. We gave everything over to the county council and then it went to the health board, so we have absolutely nothing on the home. So, there can easily be babies in convents without any nuns or priestsbeing biological parents. Mr Dodd quoted the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes report, which ruled out the possibility that the 859 babies, whose burial places are unknown, might be buried in the nuns . Protestant authors loved to imagine the secret sins of Catholics. But the claim that priests got nuns pregnant and aborted babies were buried in the walls of the Villa is a direct attack against the priests and nuns who lived in this area and against the Catholic Church in general. You are quite right, Ray - it is *generations*. It's so obvious I suspect that It has been done already. But rumours continued to circulate until two local people, Catherine Corless and Teresa Kelly, set out to uncover the truth. But I had never heard this before, in the UK or anywhereelse. > It's an old, old ghost story. Could that be it? The Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home (also known as St Mary's Mother and Baby Home or simply The Home) that operated between 1925 and 1961 in the town of Tuam, County Galway, Ireland, was a maternity home for unmarried mothers and their children. Even our language seems to have gotten around somewhat. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. As Burke lays trapped in a coffin in the graveyard of the abbey grounds, Irene wanders the halls alone by lantern light. At one time, *unbaptized* children, suicides, and possibly some otherscould not be buried in the consecrated ground of a Catholic cemetary.A stillborn baby couldn't be buried in the churchyard regardless ofwhether his parents were married or not; a child born outside ofwedlock, once baptized, would be counted the same as a legitimatechild for the purposes of burying. See:http://www.english.upenn.edu/~traister/hughes.htmlfor "The Awful Disclosures of Maria Monk", and other such drivel onthis theme. She requested the death certificates for all of the children who died at The Home during its 36 years and, after being passed from office to office, was given a list of 796 children from the State agency who kept the records. From 1925 until 1961, an order of nuns calls the Bon Secours Sisters ran an institution at this building in Tuam in Co Galway. 22:00 GMT 07 Jun 2014 I always discounted>the stories as I was positive the nuns were too busy staying up all night>dreaming up difficult exams and other things to make our lives miserable>to have trysts with the old priests. People will be looking; they deserve to know. Note the absence of a Catholic spin on the story. It would be interesting to know what else is in the closet? June 27, 2022; how to get infinite lingots in duolingo; chegg payment options; nuns buried babies in walls . UL? Another was of the underground>tunnels between the rectory and the convent for secret trysts. This is a contentious issue. It's heart-breaking reading through all the names.'. 'I was utterly amazed when I realised that I had the names of 796 babies. Born in Bergen, Norway in 1965 The tank had been put out of use in the 1930s when it stopped working. And the children who didn't survivewould be buried in the graveyard. The Bon Secours congregation did not respond to NBC News' request for comment. Getty . We will honour their memory and make sure that we take the right actions now to treat their remains appropriately.. Theres no purgatory either. They petitioned officials for . Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Blessings!! k "i also found several references to a punk band" m. Poltergeist, Tales of the Supernatural by Harry Price. I mean, face-to-face? Melodramatic perhaps, but sometimes that's what it takes. As the BBC reports, the Daughters of Charity of St Vincent de Paul, which ran the home, refused to comment on the findings. A friend of mine served an LDS mission in Peru and apparently heardthe same story there. In the very brief research I've done regarding this since I firstposted here I've found that it DOES seem to be an urban legend commonto many locales around the world. But I had never heard this before, in the UK or anywhere: else. : It's an old, old ghost story. After breaking in the media almost a fortnight ago, it took more than a week before any politician made a comment about it, and it was days before national mainstream outlets covered it. The baptized/unbaptized distinction is no longer made. Tales about "schools and convents haunted by the ghosts of babies whose skeletons were found in the spaces between thewalls" have been passed around for generations. Vivienne "weren't nuns once the major if not only providers of Homesfor Wayward Girls?" This, in fact, did not happen in Santa Catalina, and there are rumours of the same story in the nearby Santa Rosa convent, as well. Of the. 'I came in pregnant and was put to work in the nursery,' she said. Catherine Corless says: 'I know there are other mass graves and there are people wanting to recognise them. 'The nuns left without doing justice to those children', she says. 402 babies, toddlers and . The children who died in the Home, this was them.. Hell exists for others too, as a reminder. Copyright 2023 The Inquisitr. : Except that both the person who told me the story and the person who. Yes or No? Some would say that the Minister had to step in. Did you ever meet Alberto? Brid Smith has also demanded the. Clodagh Kilcoyne/Reuters. 'We want to put those children's names on a plaque and get them up on the wall. The Church operated as a quasi social service in the 20th century and the mother and baby homes were run in a similar fashion to the Magdalene Laundries, where single women who became pregnant were sent away. I have a lady friend who left a cloister after being a nun for more than 10 years. At a time when the Vatican has taken its most concrete steps to address a long ordeal with sex abuse and coverups, a growing chorus of nuns is speaking out about the suffering they have endured. >dexx@home.com wrote:>>> I just heard a really creepy story about a small town in the US>> Midwest from someone who lived there (which is actually HERE): Dead>> babies (murderered?) A lot of babies die in hospitals and there are miscarriages and thingslike that. Many more were thought to have been sold to American couples in an illegal adoption racket, with the institutions filing fake death certificates. June 4, 2014 article: Inquisitr reported Tuesday about the discovery of nearly 800 bodies found in a septic tank on the property of a former Catholic mother and baby home.. Tuam's Archbishop Michael Neary said Wednesday that the diocese had no part in running the home but urged the Bon Secours Sisters to "act upon their responsibilities in the interests of the common good.". 'Some locals do remember,' she told me, 'that grave diggers would be seen late at night bringing out children and putting them in there. An inquiry into Catholic Church run homes for unwed mothers in Ireland has revealed alarming death rates among babies. So, they consider it better that the child will be born, baptized and then killed I just wanted to say that I found your site via Bing and I am glad I did. 'They needed to dig for worms and one day they lifted up some old slabs that had been lying since before the estate was built'. But like you, I do question protestant Christians who can work together with Roman Catholics on moral issues and politics. Investigators said that DNA analysis confirmed that the discovered remains were of children between the ages of 35 weeks and three years. Have never been anywhere near Belfast>And thus are unlikely to have been exposed to Irish propaganda of any>description. Do they go straight to purgatory (since they have original sin, that must be atoned for?) This was ( and probably still is) believed to to beabsolute truth, and only to be expected from followers of the Whore ofBabylon, in '50s Belfast.So probably not urban legend, but propaganda. They deserve to have a name, the day they were born, the day they died. A Church that sets such store by the sanctity of human life and its opposition to abortion showed very little respect for the young souls in its care, and that rankles with Teresa Kelly. "Many of the revelations are deeply disturbing and a shocking reminder of a darker past in Ireland when our children were not cherished as they should have been," Flanagan said. In medieval times, didn't the nuns have women working with them aspart of the sheltered life who were not qualified to 'take the veil'either by lack of vocation, lack of dowry or lack of moral rectitude? Its original function had ceased in the 1930s when mains sewerage came, but the nuns had seemingly put it to a new and grisly use. So,if the nuns at a convent took in a woman whose baby died, they'd probablybury it on the convent grounds. On the closing of the home in 1961, all the records for the home were returned to Galway County Council, who are the owners and occupiers of the lands of the home, the statement said. Yep. ', Worse was to follow. Posted by on Jun 10, 2022 in iroquois word for warrior | which of the following statements about histograms are true? And Mark Twain, who was not a medievalist but played one in severalof his books, obliquely refers to the rumors as truths in"A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. : > Sorry. The Bon Secours nuns released a statement through a PR company on Thursday. In the same way they stopped the no meat on Fridays and now only during lent. According to The Daily Mail, a statement issued March 3, 2017 from the Mother and Baby Homes Commission said that significant quantities of human remains have been discovered in at least 17 of the 20 underground chambers which were examined earlier this year. Almost 800 children had died there between 1925 and 1961, according to records, but there was only one burial record for just one child. I'm not sure she was supposed to, but she dug out the old records of all the children who died, with their ages and what they died of', By collating the data, Catherine calculated that nearly 800 babies were buried beneath the housing estate. situs link alternatif kamislot nuns buried babies in walls Two local boys reportedly unearthed the concrete-covered tank used by the home while playing in 1975 and found hundreds of children's bones inside. (LogOut/ Like all the mother and baby homes run by the Church, conditions in Tuam had been primitive. or are they just barrelled straight into hell? She said that she had discovered a gruesome cemetery in the convent's basement where the tiny bodies were buried, along with the young nuns who refused to take part in the orgies. Thousands of bones have been unearthed in two ossuaries discovered in the Vatican City, as part of an ongoing search for clues into the disappearance of a 15-year-old girl more than three decades ago. Then why would anybody think it was standard practice in the old days. Some of the poorer women who gave birth were forced to work for the nuns in the institution after they had their child as a way to pay for the service which had been provided to them. On the walls and atop each grave in the Tomb Room lies a Death Mask, each one of which is physically molded after the facial likeness of several crew members.